Andrew Jackson Part 1: The Rise of America's Most Violent President

This week, James (@historysdevils) is joined by Edd Mair (@eplmair) for a double episode on the life of Andrew Jackson, examining how the seventh president of the United States rose from a frontier orphan to become a war hero, slaveholder, populist political figure, and one of the most influential and controversial presidents in American history.

In this first part of Andrew Jackson's story, we trace his journey from the backcountry of the Carolinas during the American Revolution to his emergence as a national celebrity after the War of 1812. The episode examines Jackson's violent temperament, his legendary duelling career, his immersion in frontier politics, military leadership, his attitudes toward slavery and his relentless campaigns against Native Americans. We also explore how his experiences on the American frontier shaped the political style, ideas, and reputation that would eventually carry him to the White House and re-shape the office in his own eccentric and authoritarian image.

What's covered in this video:
Andrew Jackson's childhood in Carolinas and his family's experiences during the American Revolutionary War.
Jackson's capture by British forces during the Revolution, and the origins of his lifelong hatred of Britain.
His move to Nashville in the Southwest Territory and his duels with Waightstill Avery, John Sevier and Charles Dickenson.
His controversial marriage to Rachel Donelson.
Jackson's involvement in slavery and evidence of his harsh treatment of those he enslaved.
The rise of Jackson as a political figure in Tennessee and his appointment as commander of the Tennessee militia.
Jackson's role during the War of 1812, his military ambitions, and the wider geopolitical struggle involving Britain, the United States, Spain, and Napoleon.
The Creek War, the Red Stick movement, and Jackson's brutal campaign against Creek resistance.
The Battle of Horseshoe Bend and the military reputation Jackson built through his victories in the American South.
The origins of Jackson's nickname "Old Hickory" and the health problems he endured throughout his military career.
The Battle of New Orleans, Jackson's decisive victory over British forces, and the events that transformed him into a national hero.
Jackson's use of martial law in New Orleans and the controversies that followed his wartime leadership.
The First Seminole War, the Spanish colony of Florida, and Jackson's campaign against Seminole communities, Black settlements, and foreign influence in the region.
The history of Florida as a refuge for escaped slaves, the emergence of the Seminole people, and the strategic importance of the territory to American expansion.
Jackson's treatment of Native Americans and escaped slaves, including the stories of Lyncoya Jackson and Fernando (Polydor).
How Jackson's military successes, frontier image, and popularity with ordinary voters positioned him for a future presidential campaign.

Chapters:
00:00 - Andrew Jackson Before the White House

03:04 - The Violent Boy Who Survived

11:18 - Making a Name on the Frontier

16:54 - Why Jackson Loved Duels

21:27 - Slavery Built His Fortune

27:31 - The Woman Behind the Scandals

33:52 - From Lawyer to Power Broker

37:52 - War of 1812 Changes Everything

44:00 - Jackson's War on the Creeks

50:58 - The Battle That Made Him

55:19 - Conquering Florida by Force

63:14 - America's New Folk Hero

Thanks to SOULFULJAMTRACKS for their tune "Dark Halloween"

Follow HISTORY's DEVILS 

On Instagram @historysdevils

https://www.instagram.com/historysdevils/

On Substack

https://jamescrossland.substack.com/

Follow JAMES CROSSLAND

On Bluesky @jamescrossland.bsky.social

https://bsky.app/profile/jamescrossland.bsky.social

Tag HISTORY's DEVILS

@historysdevils

#HistorysDevils #JamesCrossland #HistoryPodcast #Podcast #History #DarkHistory #HistoricalBiography #TrueHistory #HistoryDocumentary #Deepdive #Storytelling 

History's Devils is a history podcast exploring the lives of murderers, charlatans, psychopaths, dictators, war criminals, tyrants, demagogues, revolutionaries, cult leaders, conquerors, fraudsters, and other controversial figures.

History's Devils is hosted by James Crossland, professor of international history and author of:

Rogue Agent: From Secret Plots to Psychological Warfare, the Untold Story of Robert Bruce Lockhart

The Rise of Devils: Fear and the Origins of Modern Terrorism...

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

A belligerent, arrogant, ruthless, and quite possibly psychotic man comes to Washington, DC. He is sneeringly dismissive of the career politicians who dwell there, and he revels in the fact that he is the ultimate political outsider. He's no limp wristed East Coast elite. He's a man of action from the heartland of America. He's going to clean up corruption. He's a man of the people who's going to provide a voice to the voiceless. He's an unwavering patriot who will always put America first and violently defend it from its enemies within and without. Sound familiar? Of course it does. Because I'm talking about the seventh president of the United States, Andrew Old Hickory Jackson, the subject of this week's episode of History's Devils. My name is James Crossland, and joining me to pick apart Andrew Jackson's life of violence and the complex legacy he left for America and its political culture, I am joined by a returning guest, the incomparable Ed Mare. Ed, what's the haps?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

The haps is good, uh, even if we are having to discuss Andrew Jackson, but I will put my cards on the table now. The most significant president of the 19th century, I think. And we're going to get into some of those reasons, why throughout it, but this is a man who, for all of his many faults, defines the American presidency.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yeah, that's a that's a very good way to put it because that's the thing about this guy is he he's he's uh he he's a he's a creature of multiple parts. Um this is a podcast journey, as I've said um teen times, through the lives of murderers, charlatans, psychopaths, and shithels. He ticks a lot of these boxes, but not in a way that's straightforward, because on the one hand, he's remembered as a violent populist who crashed the U.S. economy, authored one of the great tragedies of U.S. history, The Trail of Tears, in which tens of thousands of Native Americans were displaced and at least 12,000 killed. I think that's the bottom figure. Jackson is also noted for his enjoyment of shooting people, specifically in one-on-one jewels, many of which he participated in throughout his life, often for quite trivial reasons, just because he fancied a fight, it seems. And testament to his hard man image, in one of these jewels, he took a bullet like a champ and then proceeded to kill the man who fired it at him. Um, he was known for gambling, stealing another man's wife, beating the bejesus out of people with a walking stick. So far, so mentally unbalanced. But on the other hand, Jackson rose to prominence as a war hero, serving bravely and aptly in some instances in a number of conflicts that both expanded the territory of the fledgling United States in the early 1800s, defended it from foreign incursions, and as you mentioned, he's he's increasingly, I think, recognized by historians today, looking back, particularly given where we are, and saying this guy kind of defined what a US president looks like, the extent of their powers, the rich of command, their responsibilities to the American people. So he's lauded and reviled in equal measure. This is going to be a big one. This is gonna most likely be a two-party. He had a hell of a career. So we'll we'll get into it. But before we do, it's time for it's time for quick plugs and and gratuitous promotion. If you are enjoying History's Devils, do make sure to like, subscribe, share this episode with folks curious about American history or indeed the state of where we are today, and let us know what you think of Andrew Jackson, whether he rings a few bells for the 21st century listener. So that's out the way. Let's let's do some history. Andrew Jackson was born on the 15th of March 16 uh 1767. Good start there, James. 1767. In the wax horse, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, region of the Carolinas, which uh, for anyone who's not aware, that is the goddamn middle of nowhere at this time. This is an agrarian community. His parents are originally from Ireland, emigrated there in 1865. Father dies before he's born, so he grows up without a dad, which may or may not be significant. He does, however, have elder brothers, uh Hugh and Robert. He's devoted to his mother, Elizabeth. She's his rock as he's growing up. He is prone as a child to temper tantrums, noted for having a lack of discipline, not much formal education, but he could read and write. Not much opportunity to flex those muscles, mind you, in the backwaters of the Carolinas. So he tends to spend his youth sort of doing errands for his mom, getting into trouble. There's a great story recounted in a few biographies of how as a child Andrew is playing with a gun, as children do, you know, um, with his mates, and they get him to fire it. And he doesn't realize that the recoil on this thing is gonna hit hard, and he falls to the ground, they all laugh, it's very humiliating, and his response is to get up, dust himself off, stare at them coldly, and say, Stop laughing, or I'll kill you. Which is an early sign of where we're headed, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Yeah, you know, child counselling in the 18th century, maybe, maybe that would should have been a big could have altered the course of history there, but maybe I I mean I I don't know if that's a if if that's a true story.

SPEAKER_00 5:36

It's it's turned up in a few biographies, but I I think it speaks to the fact that whether it's true or not, it's it's it's one of those early indicators of of a guy who is going to grow up to have a thin skin and a violent disposition. Um, and this is something that comes through in any biography. I should mention, just in terms of the duality of the man, I read two biographies in preparing for this. I read John Meacham's 2008 American Lion, which is, I would call it critical and sensationalist, focuses a lot on the scandals of which Jackson was embroiled in many. Um, and then I read H. W. Brands's Andrew Jackson's Life and Times, which is a drier, and I think in some ways more sympathetic um depiction of the guy. Um, it doesn't really matter which biography you read, from what I can gather. He always comes across as being violent, prone to anger, more prone to anger than you than your typical 18th century politician, 19th century politician. He's always unique, he's always an outsider. That's the through line.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

I think uml unless there's any any other, unless there's something I'm missing in terms of the the way this guy is.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

Well, I would those are I think good choices for the biographies. And the thing about Jackson is that the biographies on Jackson are so I've been going for so long. Even before he was president, there were biographies of the great general Andrew Jackson, and they are just worth seeking out um on their own merits because they are mad. You know, the things that they talk about, the way that they big up what Jackson had already achieved in his career, but also these stories that you mentioned from his childhood, they kind of emerge in these early biographies from the 1820s. And it's a really interesting insight into what they think is cool, essentially. Like, yeah, so Jackson was a kid and he threatened to kill everyone. Isn't that great? Shouldn't he be the president of the United States? Don't you think that's a good idea? So a lot of these stories are embedded there very uncritically as what a great guy, what a cool thing that he did. And I think this starts off this myth of Jackson of you know the true frontiersman, you know, the guy who's getting into duels and everything. But when you scratch the surface a little bit, as you've already done, it's mad. It's crazy. I mean, no, this person shouldn't be anywhere near high office. This person shouldn't be anywhere near a school by the sounds of it. But for some reason, this is you know what they want in their president.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yeah, even even by the standards of the time, he he's recognized as being, as I say, like uniquely violent. And that's a it's yeah, it's it's interesting that it's uh seen as uncritically. But um, speaking of violence, in April 1775, a little skirmish breaks out in a place called Concord, Massachusetts. May have heard of it. Something something kind of important happens there. Don't know the full story, and and we don't know where it's gonna go either. The story is still unfolding. But um, it is the start of the American Revolutionary War. The colonies are plunged into war with the mother country, Britain. Story goes that after the Declaration of Independence was signed in August 1776, copies of it are published in the various colonies so that people would know that this defiance was happening. Apparently, young Andrew Jackson, age nine, is chosen by the people of his podunk town to read the Declaration of Independence aloud in the, I don't know, the wax or investigator or whatever the hell the local rag is called. I don't know if this is true, but it fits with the brand that he adopts when he's president, where he is his ascendancy is tied to the ascendancy of America. You know, he he is America for for all intents and purposes. Yeah. Um, if it's an apocryphal story, it's a damn good one. If it's true, then you know, it speaks to the larger-than-life nature of the guy. The British enjoy a number of victories in the Waxhaus region, and Jackson's and family are forced to flee. They are not loyalists to the crown. Uh, his mother supports the rebels' cause. They relocate to Charlotte. All three Jackson boys, Andrew, Hugh, and Robert, join the rebels. The oldest brother Hugh dies in the fighting. Andrew, who is only 14, and he's basically a scout for Washington's forces, he actually engages in a gunfight to defend the house of a prominent rebel in Charlotte. So he actually sees some action during this war, despite being a teenager. He and his brother Robert are then captured, 1781. And I don't know if both of them, or if it's just Andrew, but that they are forced to lick a red coat's boots. And again, the story is that Andrew tells this guy to fuck off, and he gets smacked across the hand with a saber as punishment, and then it gets worse because Robert, Andrew's older brother, dies from smallpox whilst in British captivity. Andrew gets a dose of it as well. But in a trend that's gonna occur throughout his life, he guts it out. He kind of shakes off smallpox. Um, this is as we'll get into, this is a guy who suffers from myriad health complaints throughout his life, and tough old bastard that he is, he just keeps going, um, thoroughly indifferent to it. But uh the rest of his family don't seem to have that iron constitution. His mother, his beloved mother Elizabeth, she dies of cholera soon after. So he has a fucking awful war. Like he gets humiliated, beaten, gets a dose of the smallpox, his family is wiped out, and Andrew leaves this war possessed of two things which I think are really noteworthy for where his career is going to go: a hatred of the British and confidence in his own toughness and resolution. Uh that's what I think he takes from that. War ends in 1783. Andrew, now a young man by the standards of the time, moves to Salisbury, North Kakalachi and trains to become a lawyer. Something to be said about the legal fraternity and its culture at this time. This is these are the tech bros of this era. These are young, confident men. There's a sort of dude bro, frat culture. There's drinking, there's gambling, there's womanizing. Um, that young men who think they're hot shit, basically. It's brash, hyper-masculine environment. And by all accounts, Jackson thrives in that. He's a promising young man amongst them, but he's particularly seen because of his origins as a man with a bit of an edge, uh bit of rawness, which means he might be just the guy to bring some law and order to the wilder regions of the newly independent United States. He's therefore given the job in 1788 of traveling west to Nashville, Tennessee, to become a prosecuting attorney. He's now 21 years old. Now I say Tennessee, but this isn't really Tennessee yet, right? This is the region we know is Tennessee is actually something else. This is the frontier of the American existence. This is basically the Wild West of the 1700s. What's this place like that he's going to? What's he going to encounter there? Who lives there? What's he in for?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah, so it's basically the unincorporated Southwest Territory as it's known at this time. And Jackson arrives at the end of this very abortive project called the State of Franklin, which were a bunch of settlers out there who thought, well, we're going to start our own, you know, state with blackjack and hookers and all that stuff. And basically, they want to create a state so they can start creating policy and they can start negotiating with indigenous communities and they can start even speaking with uh the Spanish and the British, who remember are still a force here in North America, particularly the Spanish who control so many of the trading waterways that are needed for any of these states to really prosper. So Jackson comes in at the tail end of this, at the state of Franklin. The US central government uh basically shuts this down and says this is not the way we go about creating states. This is what later leads to the Northwest ordinance, where we get a much clearer sense of uh how a territory becomes a state and part of the Union from there. So Jackson comes in at the end of this abortive state of Franklin, and you say Wild West, and I think that's particularly correct here. Um, you know, settlers went out into these regions thinking they were going to find their fortune, they were ambitious, um, you know, they were very much inspired by the Declaration of Independence, by the Revolutionary War, by the successes of the US. Let's go out there, let's expand. This is our land. None of them ever thought that the US would just be 13 colonies. I mean, this is part of the reason they're fighting the war. They want to go beyond. They want to expand into this land that the nasty old British wouldn't let them expand into before. So they're going out into this territory, the Southwest Territory. And um essentially they find that this is not unoccupied lands that they can just walk into and they can put a flag down and everyone goes, right, that's yours now, we'll leave you alone. Indigenous people live here, Europeans are still here as well. So many of these settlers are basically confined to forts, you know, actual defensive positions. They can't go much beyond the fort without getting killed, scalped, whatever it might be. And this is the kind of environment I think Jackson comes into. And reflecting back on what you were saying before about his Revolutionary War experience, I think this is an essential component to understanding why Jackson breaks the mold of these presidents. Think about what all the other presidents before Jackson were doing during the Revolutionary War. You know, these are the founding fathers, these are the people who are debating ideas and, you know, thinking about uh, you know, what are the rights of states in contrast to the federal government? Even John Quincy Adams, you know, the son of John Adams, he's part of these debates. He's essentially a founding father himself. But Jackson's there on the front lines fighting. He's losing family. Then he comes out into the Southwest Territory, very much at the forefront of the hardships. He was at the forefront of the hardships of the American Revolution, and now doing that same in terms of the settler experience as well. So this is the sort of environment he's in. People are ambitious, yet also very paranoid about foreign influences, of indigenous peoples as well. But there is this resolute um acknowledgement and commitment, I think, to what a white settler can achieve and the rights of a white settler as well. This is the kind of environment Jackson's in um during this period.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah, and it and it suits him to a T. I mean, he he fits in in this Wild West environment very well. And we know this because not long after Andrew Jackson uh gets this new gig as a lawyer in Tennessee in 1788, he decides to get into a duel with someone, uh a man by the name of Waitstill Avery. Great name, fantastic name. More kids should be called Wait Still. Uh those those intending to have children, bring that back. That is an awesome name. Wait Still Avery is a fellow lawyer educated at Princeton. He's about 10 years older than Jackson, he's more established, he came from a better family. He's all this thing is writing itself when they encounter each other. He's well spoken, he knows the classics, he probably knows his cheeses and wines too. He's a smart, well-bred, know-it-all. And when the two face off in court, not long after Jackson starts this gig, Avery wipes the floor with Jackson and in the process basically mocks him, runs him down, makes him look like a clueless amateur. Jackson, surprise, surprise, does not take this as a as a learning moment, uh, as something to take from. Instead, he writes to Avery saying, My character you have injured. I therefore call on you as a gentleman to give me satisfaction. And uh Avery accepts this. The two meet a few days later with pistols in hand, and just as they're about to duel, Jackson's second, the man you have to bring to a duel to kind of have your back, he says, Look, this Avery guy, he actually seems all right. Don't you think you're overreacting a bit? And Jackson, to his credit, concedes that point. So when it comes time to duel, Jackson fires and he deliberately misses. So does Avery. They then come together. Jackson says words to the effect of, I feel your insult against me has been corrected. They shake hands, and after that, they become great pals. So it's great. There's layers to this story that I think is quite interesting. Jackson comes across as a bit of a hysteric, you know, quick to anger, quick to overreact, but you give him time to cool off. He's capable of calming down. And the same person who he could threaten one moment with death, he will shake their hand and go, you know what, you're all right, you can be my mate. It's a it's a curious character treat.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

And it's one of the I think he's he he's a man of um extremes in that way. And I think for a lot of people who have you know briefly looked into Jackson's history, you would just see him as this sort of volatile hothead. But as you point out with that story, there's something else to it as well. He is calculating in a way, he can be quick to anger, but he is always considering the situation, he is always thinking of the best way through. What is the most advantageous route for him, the people he's with, whether that's his company, whether that's his battalion, whether that's the people of the United States, he will be quick to anger, but he will also be charting a path through it as well. He won't burn those bridges completely.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Yeah. But on occasions where he knows he has an advantage, he does see it through. Uh, we should take a moment here to talk about the dueling because it is a big part of the Jackson myth. The the punch it into Google result is Andrew Jackson took part in over a hundred jewels. He probably didn't. It's very unlikely that he took part in over a hundred jewels. It's very unlikely anyone took part in over a hundred jewels. But he did, he did take part in enough that he gained a rep in his own life for being quite the enthusiast for dueling. It says a lot that this guy just seemed to be someone who was very quick to throw the glove down and insist on satisfaction on a semi-regular basis. And not all these jewels ended as peacefully with him, you know, seeing the lunacy of the moment and backing down. For example, in 1806, Jackson challenged a man named Charles Dickinson to a duel over a gambling debt. And Dickinson was up for this. And Jackson and he got together, the first shot is fired, it puts a bullet into Jackson's chest. Uh, because we're we're we're talking flintlock pistols of the early 18th century here. We are not talking great ballistic force. So the bullet hits Jackson's breastbone, goes no further, shatters basically against his chest, doesn't go to the lungs and the heart. Still pretty horrific. He takes a moment to catch his breath, compose himself, and then because the way a jewel works is you fire a shot, and then the other guy fires a shot. You know, you got to stand there and take it. He realizes he's not dead, and then he calmly, as the procedure of the jewel dictates, raises his pistol, uh, fires back at Dickinson, and he does not miss. He lands it in Dickinson's lower belly, very painful place to be shot. And uh quite possibly that was deliberate. Again, a little bit of vengeance. He wanted this guy to suffer. Who knows? Dickinson did not suffer long, though. He died later that day in agony. And Jackson was actually it's it's notable that Jackson was not praised for this. He was reviled. There were a number of people, I think, who saw him as perhaps deliberately aiming for this very painful part of the body, wanting this guy to suffer. But Jackson didn't care. What mattered was he won. You know, if people, if people wanted to judge him for that, who cares? You know, I I I won the day, and that's all that mattered. So whilst there was room for reason, there was also room for a hell of a lot of malice. So um back to where where we are, 1788, Jackson's had his spat with weight slavery, resolved it through uh gunfire and handshakes. And now he's taken up this position as a lawyer. But before that, he's gonna get into the slave business. And this is another key part of his story that needs to be noted. Um and and again, there's room for nuance in how you wanna interpret it, but um at this basically, the the second he gets out there, he's he on the road, in fact, to Nashville, I believe, he acquires his his first slave, he purchases his first slave. And some he keeps for his own purpose, others he sells for profit. What do we know about his views on slavery? And just for context, you know, what is the state of slavery at this time in the United States? What how is it practiced?

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Yeah, those are linked together in how I can answer that. It goes back to what I mentioned about Jackson being out here on the frontier and these values that are being forged in his mind. And the principal value is um this right of the white settler, the white settlers' right to lands to pursue happiness, essentially, and um to achieve wealth. And slavery is a part of that. And for Jackson, that's a very important part of it. That's how he views slavery as a means to for the white settler to prosper. And more broadly in the United States, in the late 1790s, early 1800s, this is how slavery is starting to be rejuvenated as an institution. Because as people expand, it's a great way for them to make money, to easily cultivate the land, make a profit, send this back into the cities, export wherever it might be. So I think Jackson fits the mold of what's going on more broadly in the 1790s and early 1800s in regards to slavery. It's something that he has a right to because he is a white settler. You know, I don't think you could say that Jackson is like uh when going into the 1850s, into the 1860s, these fire eaters as they're known in the Confederacy who are just ideologically in love with the idea of slavery. I don't think Jackson's that far, but he is committed to the institution because it is something that enables the common man that he thinks he represents to be able to make a living, to secure their future, to secure their family's future. But um even with all of that, even saying that he's not like the biggest uh evangelist for the institution, he was certainly brutal, right, in terms of how he was as an enslaver. Um take the example of an enslaved man who fled his plantation in 1804. Um, as many enslavers do, um, he put out an adverb to say that this man had run away and here's what he looks like, here's um what his name is, uh, bring him back and you'll get some money. But what is unique, and I mean this um literally, it is unique. I have not seen this in any other fugitive from slavery advertisements. And I teach them, I use them as sources, I've looked through these databases. Um, what is unique about Jackson's advert in 1804 is that at the end he puts in, quote, $10 extra for every hundred lashes any person will give him, as an enslaved person, to the amount of 300. End quote. So Jackson is not only saying, I'll give you some money if you find him, I'll give you a reward, as is to be expected in these advertisements. Jackson is also saying, if you lash him a bit, I will give you some more money because this guy needs to be disciplined. He needs to be reminded that he is property. So Jackson is his convictions are ironclad in terms of his right as an enslaver to subjugate those that he enslaves. And I think this advert is one of the many sort of grotesque examples we have of this very strange and brutalist approach that Jackson has to slavery in particular.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

And yet he's he's trying to incentivize other people to do the disciplining. He doesn't want to do it himself, which is I mean, this is a guy who is he is not averse to to taking to someone with it with a stick. Like this is this is I again for for a violent personality, it's interesting that he would he would rather give out money to say you you do it for me. It's curious.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Again, I think, I think though that is in keeping with this violent personality, and he's trying to almost normalize that. That this is what I would do if I found him. I would give him 300 lashes or whatever it might be. He's trying to normalize that in the advertisement, say this is obviously what you should do. You know, this is what I would do if I find him, because I think the it's inherent in that mess is that in that advertisement. If Jackson finds him first, this is what he's going to be doing. So if you find him, you need to do it on my behalf. So there is a power dynamic to that as well, that um this enslaved person thought he could get away from Jackson's, um, you know, from Jackson's violence and dominance. But through this advertisement, Jackson's saying, nope, you're going to be my surrogate if you find him. You are going to do what I would do. And it's something we see later on with Jackson, particularly in military situations, that he really uh holds the line in terms of demanding from his soldiers what he would expect to be doing for himself as well. And you see it in this advertisement: you're going to do the violence on my behalf because that is what I would be doing.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Yeah. So uh dueling slavery, and why not bigamy? Why not add that to the list? In 1789, that is to say, a year after arriving in Nashville, Jackson seduces a woman named Rachel Donelson, who's the wife of an army officer. He soon marries her, despite Rachel never divorcing her husband. This creates a local controversy, but again, Jackson does not care because just like the jewel, he won. And in this case, he wins a woman who he remains devoted to for the rest of his life. Uh he's very much adores and loves Rachel. Um, he doesn't like to be apart from her, which becomes an issue later on when he's having to travel to Washington. He's so devoted, in fact, that when the governor of Tennessee, a man by the name of uh John Sevier, insulted Rachel by accusing her of abandoning her husband for Jackson, a melee broke out in the Knoxville courthouse during which guns were fired, presumably by Jackson and maybe some of his friends. It's unclear from what I can gather. What is clear though that is um Jackson uh uh to Jackson's mind, you know, Rachel's honor was slighted, and so there has to be restitution. So what do we get? Well, before we get to the duel, which is obviously where this is gonna go, uh, we get some fascinating letters back and forth uh between these these two guys, Jackson and Sevier. Politely insulting is what I'd call these. Jackson writes to Sevier, in the town of Knoxville, you took the name of my lady into your polluted lips in the town of Knoxville. You challenged me to draw when you had a cutlass and I a cane. So accusing him of cowardice. And now, sir, in the town of Knoxville, you shall atone for it, or I will expose you as a coward and a poll troon. Poultroon. He went for the poll troon. Poultroon. Why don't why don't people use social media this way? Why don't they talk if people talked on social media like this, it'd be way, way cooler. Way cooler if people still express their displeasure with one another in this way. Sevier wrote back saying, I am perplexed by your scurrilous polltron language. There's poll troon again. Clearly the word of the moment, yeah. They go back and forth for months with this. This this this, you know, you you, sir, are a poll troon.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

No, you, sir, a poltron. These are busy guys, you know. This is the mad thing about it. One of them's the governor, and you know, Jackson's a lawyer, and they're writing these letters to each other. It's not just sending a tweet. They have to write these down.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

They're politicians on Twitter. They're politicians on Twitter. It's it's what's all is new again. Um and this, this, this, you know, sort of, he said, she said, bullshit. This ends uh in in ridiculous fashion. When they meet up by accident, they encounter each other by accident on the road to Knoxville. Uh just you know, in on on their horses, they got people with them. Jackson whips out a pistol and says, get down off your horse, let's do this, basically. Sevier backs off, says he has a headache or something, and that you know they can shoot at each other some other time. Jackson then draws a sword and keeps advancing. Sevier gets off the horse, draws his sword, but the unsheat and this is where we get into Python territory. The unsheathing of the of the sound spooks his horse, uh, and the horse then gather gallops off with Sevier's guns in the saddlebag. So he doesn't have his guns, which means they can't do the jewel. Uh Sevier then runs behind a tree. If you can picture this, he's running behind a tree, shouting at Jackson, you know, he's he's less armed. Do you have a cutlass and a and a and uh and a gun? I have just a sword. This is unfair. You know, you are a coward. Uh only a coward would attack another man with Sans guns if they've got a pistol. It's all it's very, very silly. And and again, this ridiculous scene that their seconds or whatever are just watching this, going, what the fuck is wrong with these guys? What the hell is this? Um, and they're drawing their guns as well because they're like, well, you know, this is gonna tee off, basically. It's a complete mess. Eventually it comes to the end when someone goes, retrieve Sevier's horse, the two men bark insults at each other and then just ride away in opposite directions. So they never actually have have this thing out. It's just this again, there's there's this childish quality to this, childish and and and yet you know brutally violent and and you know edging towards edging towards someone getting killed.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

And very serious. They take it so seriously. I mean, remembering that this is the governor hiding behind a tree from Andrew Jackson, and he's making this you know rationalist case, this sort of loyal argument that you know we can't be doing this now. You've got guns and cutlasses. Oh, we'll do it later, but not right now, he says from behind the tree. And you know, they're having this debate with over the silliest of things, and it's I I go back to the point that it's difficult to hold a beef back then because you have to put in so much work for it. You've got to write the letter, you've got to send the letter, you've got to look up what was it, pontoon or whatever in the dictionary. If you have that, you get true, yeah. You've got to look up these words, so it's it's mad, it's good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

So, but anyway, so in between these fights, Jackson is still establishing himself pretty well as a lawyer. He becomes a bit of a player in in Tennessee, and in the 1790s, he drifts into politics. Um, he becomes a Democratic congressman when Tennessee is incorporated as a state of the union in, I think it's 1796 from memory. He's getting wealthier during this time as well, off the slave trade, so much so that in 1804 he acquired a house. I'll put a picture of it up here, the Hermitage, uh, which today I think is like a museum dedicated to Jackson. It's this it's this pretty grand affair. It's got grounds, it's in Nashville. It's a it's a it's a projection of his status and the fact that he is he has come out, you know, as this, you know, basically orphaned young man, uh, sans family. He's come out west and he's he's made he's made better than good, he's made great. Things are going well, he's got a career, he's got a woman, he's got this semi-lawless environment where he can just you know draw his sword and demand satisfaction whenever he feels like it. That might his right mentality that he's possessed of seems like it's the kind of thing that can flourish here. But he's still quite restless and he doesn't want to get comfortable. And so in 1802, Jackson adds military leader to his list of our occupations by becoming the head of the Tennessee militia. And uh, interesting side point, John Sevier wanted to be head of the militia. So you wonder if Jackson just decided, oh, I'm gonna put him for this just to fuck with this guy, just to keep this beef going, just to you know, deprive him of something he wants. Again, children. Um so he becomes a militia leader. Now let's let's break that down. What does leading a militia on the frontier involve at this time? What sort of stuff is he getting up to? Who is he having to fight? What's what's his program of activities?

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Yeah, I think being a militia leader, particularly in these territories out to the West, these newer incorporated states, it's the most important role that anyone can really have in the state or the territory. I mean, it's um it's telling that Sevier, you know, the governor, goes for this position as well. He sees this as more important than his role as governor. And there's a very simple reason for why is because the US is terrified of this idea of having a standing army. It's something that comes up a lot in um the debates around the Articles of Confederation and later the Constitution as well, because this thought of having a standing army for a lot of thinkers like Jefferson is that if we have a standing army, then this is going to lead to corruption. What if we have some despot in power who can use the standing army to crush and take away the liberties of all the states? So the US is very squeamish about centralizing its um army, which does lead to ridiculous situations where it just cannot really put down rebellions efficiently enough. You know, think of a Shays Rebellion in the 1780s, the Whiskey Rebellion was a bit more organized in the 1790s, but still, you know, the federal government, when something like this happens, they have to appeal to the militias first. Like, can you come and help us? Will Tennessee give some men for this? And so Jackson becomes that guy. Jackson is the head of the militia, which is essentially the army of that state. And Jackson is now the person that the federal government has to speak to whenever there's some big military endeavor that the Fed uh that the United States needs to be involved with, you know, defense of the realm and sort of stuff. But in terms of the state, Jackson's getting on with, you know, hectoring indigenous peoples, but also learning a lot more about diplomacy with indigenous peoples as well. Again, something about Jackson I think people will smooth over is that he is someone who has no time for indigenous peoples or even thinking about them. A lot of that is true, but he is someone that spends a lot of time learning about negotiation with indigenous peoples, particularly how does the US get what it what they want out of these proceedings. So a lot of short-term agreements, but for Jackson, the long-term vision is dispossessing these indigenous peoples of their land. So he's dealing a lot with the Chickasaw, for instance, in Tennessee. And this really comes out in the 1810s in particular. You know, Jackson is just zooming through these different treaties with uh indigenous peoples, and he's developing this in his time as uh the militia leader, I think.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Um that's his his day-to-day, but then in 1812, uh he gets a chance to to really uh rise and and and show where he's got to in terms of military experience and also to revisit that chip on his shoulder with the British. Because in 1812, a little bit of a war breaks out between uh Britain and the United States. Basically, I'd the war of 1812 is one of these kind of silly but also kind of important wars. It sort of straddles, straddles a lot of places. But uh the Cliff Notes version, US declares war because it's pissed off with restrictions on American trade into France that Britain was imposing as part of its ongoing war with Napoleon Bonaparte. Remember, this is going on at the time, the Napoleonic Wars. Jackson wants British blood, and so he gathers about 2,000 men in Nashville with the aim to march them southwest towards Florida. Now, Florida, British colony until I think it's 1783-ish, then ceded to Spain. Spain is is uh kind of, I mean, is it fully allied with Britain in 1812, or is it just sort of peripherally? Like, what's the peripherally?

SPEAKER_02 38:45

I mean Spain's role really is just to try and keep out of these things as much as possible. Um, they realize they do not have the manpower in Florida to be fighting these full-scale invasions. So they will generally side with the British more so than the Americans, even though they don't really like the British. Yeah. Uh, but Spain just kind of wants to keep out of this.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah. Man of action Jackson, therefore, puts together his his his merry band of followers and they're gonna go, they're gonna go do some whooping. And it should be said that the War of 1812, I mean, it most of this is uh principally thought of in in many respects as a naval conflict, aside from the the infamous you know torturing of the White House and everything else. But uh Jackson's trying to sort of bring land warfare in the south uh to this thing. Um, but he he he doesn't really get what he wants. In fact, the main action that Jackson sees in the War of 1812 is a bar fight in Nashville, uh, which occurs when they're when they're you know mustering off to March. He's shot in the shoulder. So just for those counting, this is two times now he's been shot, um, once in the chest, once in the shoulder. And that's that's kind of the the the sum of his fighting the British during this. But he does see more action in the Creek War of 1813, which is that that a war that, I mean, most people will have heard of the war of 1812, the the torching of the White House. People know that. The Creek War, a little bit more obscure for those of us who are not um uh you know inured to American history. What is the Creek War, Ed? Explain what's going on and and where does it fit within the wider context of the 1812 war?

SPEAKER_02 40:26

Yeah, sure. So the Creek War is basically a part of the War of 1812. It does happen as a consequence of it. And it takes place in what is modern-day Alabama. So it's uh basically to do with the Creek nation, um, indigenous peoples, and some scholars have called it the Creek Civil War, because it's about more of an internal conflict that's going on in the Creek nation. Uh, since the end of the American Revolution, the Creeks have been moving gradually to a position that was more friendly to the US. And as a part of that, many of their leaders started to adopt US and more Western customs so they would maybe get their children educated in US schools. They were integrating into the economic systems of the US. Um, they were even wearing Western clothing as well. I think uh a great example of this is by 1812, one of the principal chiefs of the Creeks was called William McIntosh. And his father was a white American. And it's not just in the Creeks, you see this in other native nations that those who start to rise to the top are these more westernized figures who see opportunity in working with the United States, but also think it's the best way to retain your sovereignty as well. If the US thinks you are a legitimate nation, then they're less likely to just run roughshod over your sovereignty. So there is a bit of method to what William McIntosh and these people are doing. But the issue is that in the Creek Nation in particular, there are many who disagree with this uh westernizing approach. Many of these traditional customs that they have are starting to be undermined. They don't like closer integration with the US. And in the Creek Nation, this is embodied through the Red Sticks, um, a bunch uh people who resent the cultural and political integration that McIntosh and Isilka are advocating. And so this tension leads to a civil war. And because it's happening in the context of the War of 1812, uh, the British are very happy to assist the Red Sticks because they see McIntosh's bunch as very much associated with the US. And Jackson getting wind of this decides he needs to go down and to Alabama and restore a bit of order to this. And Jackson takes on this with proper gusto. As you said, he's just been having bar fights, he wants to go and do something. And he regularly uh wrote to Rachel about his exploits, and I think this extract from a letter I have here that he sent after a decisive battle called the Battle of Horseshoe Bend is very telling. So I'll just quote this passage here. We took about 350 prisoners, women and children, and three warriors. What effect this will produce upon those uh infatuated and deluded people, I cannot yet say. Having destroyed Tohopka, three of the principal prophets, leaving but two in their nation, having tread their holy ground, as they termed it, and destroyed all their chiefs and warriors on the Tallahousi River above the Big Bend, it is probable they may now sue for peace, should they not. I will give them, with the permission of heaven, the final stroke at the Hickory Grant. So a bit of foreshadowing there. But um, I think what's really telling about that quote. And there's so many different examples of Jackson's writing and how he's talking about these battles. Is that this is the language of destruction? This isn't an adversary. This isn't like the British as they're, you know, they would see the British during the War of 1812. They might hate the British, but you have these accounts of um, you know, these naval battles, the Americans win, and they write long lists of what they're doing with the British prisoners. As, you know, we've disarmed them and now we've sent them back to Britain and said you're not allowed to go on a British boat for another six months or until the war's over. You know, very sort of gentlemanly, um, even if they have all these big disagreements and they've had these battles. But for the Creeks and the Red Sticks, it's very different. This needs to be destroyed. There's some madness, there's some infection here that needs to be removed. And only the most harsh of measures will uh succeed in that effort. Um, and I think something quite weird and telling about Jackson's actions during the Creek War is that he ends up adopting a red stick child, an orphan, taken during one of these battles. Who his parents are killed by Jackson's forces. This young boy is found near the corpse of his mother, and Jackson just decides to adopt him. He's known as uh Lin Coker Jackson. He's taken to the hermitage and he's raised there. But he's not really treated as a son, it's more almost an example, right? That he's taken this red stick and he said, I'm gonna civilize you and I'm going to tell you what proper civilization is. And you know, Linkoka Jackson just sort of lives on the hermitage, but we don't really know what he's doing. He's maybe a bit of a farmhand. He dies in 1828, and you know, very short life. Jackson seems sort of indifferent to him by the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

It's almost like a trophy, almost like a living troopy.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

Yeah, yeah. So a lot of Jackson's men follow suit, and they will do this. They will just sort of take these children, the children as pets or trophies, or you know, the spoils of war, as it were. And Jackson does some more grotesque things. You know, Jackson will cut off the nose of people that he's killed as sort of mementos of how many people he's killed during this conflict. There is no, there is no respect for the dead in terms of the red stick here and indeed the living. So, like with Linkoka Jackson, even those who survive, he has to destroy this idea of their culture as well. Bring them into this US system and entrap them, essentially. So I think Jackson's actions here are very telling. Um, it certainly foreshadows how he's going to be dealing with Native nations in the future. But the Crete War in general, um, I think it adds so much context to understanding the war of 1812 that this isn't just about naval battles and impressments and whatever. It is about indigenous peoples as well, struggling against the United States that these internal conflicts they're having, of where they fit in post-1783, post-you know, Treaty of Paris, where do these indigenous nations fit in?

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Yeah. And uh emerging from the Creek War, Jackson has that brutal reputation, uh, the massacres of red sticks being a being a key part of his uh his story at this point. He also emerges from this war with his nickname, Old Hickory, which yearns for his toughness on the campaign, in particular the the long marches that he puts his his men on, during which he is marching with a walking stick a lot of the time and not really complaining too much, despite the fact he is very, very ill. He has horrendous gut problems, would be the polite way to put it. His shoulder wound from the bullet is is not fully healed. He can't eat, really. Uh, he mostly lives off gin and water. He becomes rail thin, hollow-eyed, looks mad. It's it's it's the the the the idea of him being this kind of stringy, uh uh emaciated, psychotic looking, uh, perpetually cantankerous man is really is really built during this period. And a lot of it does stem from him him being uh being ill. Also the fact to say that he he seems to be enjoying the violence. He seems to be really getting into this battle stuff, and he he flexes those muscles to a really career-building way in uh December of 1814 when he goes to New Orleans. Now, the battle of New Orleans that unfolds over the winter of uh 1814 and 1815 is is very pivotal for Jackson. It's a bit kind of makes him in many ways in national, in the national sense. The stakes of this battle are also quite high because its outcome may or may not endanger the Louisiana purchase, which to explain that U.S. purchases from France in 1803, an enormous tract of land that goes through the center of North America from New Orleans, goes does it go right up to the Canadian border? Pretty much? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:03

Yeah, very low Canadian border, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:05

Yeah, it's it's Louisi Louisiana, uh Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, the Dakota's, it's it's a massive tract of of what's gonna, you know, come in the United States. And the fear is that if the British manage to take New Orleans, they will have a base from which to strike out and take this land that the U.S. purchased from France. And this land, you know, it is not heavily populated. It's mostly, you know, Native Americans. It's not part of the United States. It's there, it's there waiting to be developed, basically. And so the idea, the fear is that this will be taken away from the United States before it can be developed. Jackson loves the fact that this this you know this could be the the battle for the future of of the American, you know, uh North American continent. He assumes control of the defense of New Orleans in December 1814, prepares it for a siege by um uh imposing martial law, tries to throw out any French citizens within the city, uh, executes at least six deserters, prepares defenses such that the British attack is repulsed, so he he does win the day. He's got about 5,500 men up against 8,000 on the British side. There's cavalry charges out of the city, myriad acts of bravery. One soldier in Jackson's force recalled that when the smoke had cleared and we could obtain a fair view of the field, it looked at first glance like a sea of blood. It was not blood itself, but the red coats in which the British soldiers were dressed. The field was entirely covered with prostrate bodies. And you can see Jackson just lapping that up. It's a big, bloody, dramatic victory. It's Jackson's victory. But he's also criticized in the press, because again, there's always a double-edged sword with this guy. He's also criticized because he keeps martial law imposed long after the British have been defeated for reasons that he doesn't really explain, other than the fact that he enjoys having a bit of martial law. Um so he he is the red coat killing patriotic hero, but he's also the guy who shoots deserters and flogs anyone who who tries to violate his his his absolute control of a city. Um but anyway, War of 1812 ends in in uh in 1815, by which time Jackson has established himself in the minds of many observers across the country as one of the U.S.'s greatest warriors. And he certainly thinks that about himself, uses that position to assume the the role of brigadier general now of the Tennessee militia. And in this capacity, he he gets into some bother with the with the locals, with the natives. Is this him kind of going rogue and just going, you know what, I want to keep fighting? These people are here, these people are savages, let's take it to them. Or is he the servant of Washington's policy of or Washington DC's policy? Is he working for the government or is he working for Jackson?

SPEAKER_02 51:53

I think he would say he's certainly working for the government, that he's uh fulfilling the policy agenda of the administration at the time. But I think to really understand this, you need to come back to you know what you were talking about earlier on and focusing on a bit more, but I think does get lost a bit with Jackson's background when we think of him as you know, a duelist, when we think of him as this hothead or whatever. But he's also a lawyer, he is actually a lawyer, and I think he has quite a loyal understanding of things and he has quite firm principles in this way. Um, what he would see as quite cogent arguments. So when figures in Washington express some hesitancy with Jackson's marauding, which they did, it's like, can you just call this out a little bit? He would argue, Jackson would argue, that if the US government could take lands from citizens as long as they were compensated, which is what the constitution does say, you know, your land can be taken as long as the government does compensate you. Why can't this be done against Native nations? I am working within the confines of the constitution, so everything I'm doing is constitutional. And I know you want these lands, and I would say that these people are aggressive and they're attacking settlers or threatening settlers. So what I am doing is constitutional, which I think is such an important element of understanding how he's justifying what he's doing. He's not just like, I hate Native Americans, I'm gonna go kill a bunch of them. Probably that deep down, that's what he's thinking, but he's justifying this through the constitution. He's making a quite cogent legal case in terms of the 1810s for this. Um, I mean, but what this obviously forgets is that Native nations were just that. These were independent nations. The United States have been making treaties with them as if they're independent nations. But Jackson throws that out. He believes they are not independent nations, that they are essentially wards of the United States. They are dependents of the United States. So Jackson was, I think, largely an independent force, but the government in Washington left him to it, believing that these land gains were in their interest. So they could turn a bit of a knowing blind eye to it. And importantly, that logic that Jackson rested his case on was supported by Southerners and state governments in the South as well. They're happy to support Jackson. They think this is great because for them, more lands to take away from indigenous people, and most of these indigenous nations are in the South. So they want this land taken away. So he has the popular support in the South of these state governments as well. He has a legal case that he can rest it on, and the federal government just thinks, well, maybe we can just leave them to it.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Yeah. So he's he that's the thing. He's not this marauding lunatic. He's calculated, and it speaks to this idea that he also has uh his own internal logic and principles. The and and this is going to be a big part of when he becomes president. This idea that I am, as I said at the top, you know, I am the United States. I embody the will of this nation. And if the will is, you know, manifest destiny, whatever else, expand, expand at the expense of the folks who are here first, then so be it. That's that's that's the reason we're here. That's the reason we we we we got this place, right? That's this his thing. And that mentality is gonna take him uh back to back to Florida, uh, problematic Florida, uh, for the Seminole War, which is um well, God, you explain it because because Florida is a is a Florida, just like now, weird place, confusing place, and and uh for different reasons back then. What is going on there after 1812? Why does Jackson feel the need to fight a war over Florida?

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Yeah, Florida is a very weird place, so weird that I'm currently writing a book on it and this particular period in general, thinking about where Florida fits into the imagination of American expansionists. So I think a bit of context on Florida is needed to really understand how this seminal war begins. So Florida is one of the oldest colonized regions in North America. It's the first place in North America that is colonized in 1513 by the Spanish. But the Spanish soon realize we cannot tame this land. You know, if you've ever been to Florida now, it's gators. Exactly. Swamps and gators, I mean crazy weather patterns and oppressive heat, an oppressive dense heat as well. So imagine dealing with that in the 16th century, 17th century. No air conditioning, exactly, tropical diseases and all of this. So the Spanish don't really achieve much. Um, you know, they're there from 1513 to 1763. British briefly have it, and then they get it back in 1783. But the Spanish don't have much to show for it. They have Pensacola in the west, they have uh St. Augustine in the east, but beyond that, there's not really much to Florida in terms of, you know, it doesn't have all these hallmarks of colonization that we would expect. Compare Boston to Pensacola in 1783, it's night and dead in terms of the level of cultivation, of colonization, of structure of infrastructure that has been put in place in those uh two cities. Um, but so the Spanish strategy to maintain Florida is not to send a bunch of uh Spanish soldiers there or conquistadors there, it's to bring fugitives from slavery from uh British colonies in the 18th century to come and man it. So Charles II of Spain, who is notoriously the one who has all of the horrible Habsburg features, he makes a proclamation um saying that look, if you are a fugitive, if you are an enslaved person in South Carolina, an English colony, come down to Florida and you can get your freedom, and all you have to do is defend Florida. And a lot of people do that over the course of the 18th century. Loads of fugitives from slavery stream into Florida. You also have the development of um Indian polities in Florida, so a new native nation which will become the Seminoles. And so they come to Florida, they start ranching, they start uh, you know, rebuilding Spanish ruins and they ingratiate themselves into the economy. And so these Seminoles become very powerful as well. So, on the one hand, you have powerful indigenous peoples, the Seminoles, who are not really like other nations in the native South who have suffered a lot during the American Revolution. If anything, they've strengthened their position. And then you also have fugitives from slavery who have their own communities who are being supported by the Spanish and then by the British as well, when they come in and realize that these fugitives can be used to bother the United States.

SPEAKER_00 58:56

Um, people that Jackson doesn't like, basically. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 59:01

Yeah, is the I hate Andrew Jackson Club, all just fomenting in Florida. But what really bothers Jackson is first of all, during the War of 1812, you have this thing called the Patriot War, where some filibusters, as they're known, so people who want to go and who basically try and rouse popular support in these foreign territories to say, oh, we'd love to be part of the United States, called filibusters. They go down to St. Augustine and try to start that. And they're repelled not by the Spanish, but by uh the Seminoles and these free black warriors. I mean, you have these letters of people just terrified of going into the field against this combined force. So they're repelled. And Jackson thinks that that is a complete affront to the dignity and honor of the United States. But also the British, during the War of 1812, decide to give a fort to free black communities in Florida on uh a river that borders with Georgia. And this is a proper military structure, right? It's got armaments, it's got magazines, it's got cannons. Uh, the British give them, you know, scarlet red jackets. So you have these free black soldiers dressed as British soldiers hanging around at this fort.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:15

And it's not trolling Jackson.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:18

Exactly. Yes. So they're trying to but they're trying to goad him in a way. And this is not meant to be defensive, right? They're meant to be going into Georgia and doing missions and destabilizing plantations and all of this stuff. So it would just trigger Jackson, right? He is properly bothered by this. And so, with tacit approval from the US government, but I think he would have done it anyway, he leads a company down this river to destroy that fort. And um, you know, it there's this great account of the standoff. You have these black soldiers who are saying, we're not gonna give up, we we would rather die than do anything like that. And they're basically shouting at Jackson, who's on his gunboat on the river, you know, goading him. But unfortunately, you know, Jackson's gunboat fires one shot, it's a lucky shot, it lands in the forts magazine and explodes, and that's the end of this fort. But yeah, a lot of the survivors end up joining in with the Seminole Indians as well. So the mission isn't really completed for Jackson. He is very incensed about Florida, and I think this sort of starts this obsession he has with this region. So he's gonna come back to it with the first Seminole War. But that's the context there of how this conflict comes about.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:41

There's a story I think that's really interesting here. I uh given that what we said about how he's got this alliance of enemies down there, and it's basically everything he hates concentrated in Florida, it becomes an obsession. But there is there is an interesting story about how he treats uh an escaped slave who who he's found in Florida that sums up a lot of just the weirdness of this guy's character. Yeah. What's what is this story?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:07

Yeah, so this is something I I write about in my book, and other scholars have you know looked into um this history as well, and it involves um what would be known as maroon, so free black communities, but a maroon soldier called Fernando. So, what we know about Fernando is that he was enslaved in, I think, Pensacola. He escaped and he joined in with the maroon forces. He was a member of this fort that Jackson ended up destroying, and he goes on to fight with the Seminoles during the first Seminole War. And um the major battle, I mean, the last stand of the Seminole and Black Forces is along the Suwanee River near Paynestown. And there's this big last stand, and it's basically done so that um you know weaker men, women and children can escape from Jackson's marauding force. And remember, Jackson is marauding through Florida at this point. He's taking Pensacola, putting it under martial law. Um, he's um executing Seminoles, Red Sticks, British people as well, Spanish people. Again, things we've all seen before, right? Um, so they know Jackson is going to be brutal. He's not going to take any quarter, really. So Fernando is part of this last stand. And Jackson's forces come, they win this battle. And Fernando is still holding arms, essentially, at the end. And because of this, Jackson decides not to kill him, but to take him prisoner and to re-enslave him and to send him directly to the Hermitage. And his name is changed to Polydor. Um, he was literate, Polydor. Um, he wrote to his former enslaver, his former enslaver wrote to him saying, Why did you run away? That's so silly of you. And now you're going to have to go live with Andrew Jackson as punishment for that. I mean, just a remarkable stream of letters. But Polydor, just well, you know, Fernando, now known as Polydor, he just lives and works under Hermitage into the 1860s. He outlives Andrew Jackson. But there's just this fascinating insight into this is a person who had escaped slavery, who had, you know, fought against Jackson in a pitch battle and ended his life on his plantation. Much like with this, you know, Link Oka, there's this taking taking a prize, teaching them a lesson as well, trying to expunge what he saw in Fernando as these values that were completely separate or completely opposed to what he, Jackson, believes were good, proper values.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

Yeah. So it's I and again, he's collecting human spoils of war as he does. He comes away from the Seminole War um with his with his reputation. Both, again, it's that thing where it's strengthened in as much as you are clearly a warrior, but it's also sullied in as much as particularly for the the hanging of or the arbitrary execution of British troops. He's he's he's people look at that. I mean, they go, sure, yeah, massacre red sticks, but these are you know civilized white folks. What are you doing? Sort of thing. So he he gets into some bother with that, but again, he doesn't care. He's condemned in Congress for starting this fight, hanging British soldiers. He doesn't care because people are starting to call him the American Napoleon, which is funny because he actually uh openly celebrated when it when Napoleon escaped from the Isle of Elba. He said, Yeah, right on him because he's gonna shit up the British. Love that guy, love his work. Um, he doesn't care if he's condemned for all this because he's winning, right? He's destroying his opponents, he's taking human prizes. And importantly, very importantly, he's gaining the love of the mob in the process. So much so that by the time we get to the 1820s, Andrew Jackson is a major. National figure, a celebrity folk hero with growing popular support base. So, what could a brash, aggressive, overconfident, and ambitious man like Jackson possibly do with that reputation and growing power? Take the White House. And on that cliffhanger, we will end this part one of Andrew Jackson, and we will resume with part two looking at the career of this man who is going to become this populist epoch making president. We'll pick that up in the next episode. But uh, before then, remember to like, subscribe, comment, and uh see you next time on History's Devils!